Jujitsu Question

[Jason Kash]

I've been watching MMA for a Long Time now and I am still wondering the same thing. Why is it that Gracie Jujitsu is considered the best Jujitsu out there? I mean do they apply armbars differently then other styles of Jujitsu? I have yet to see any Jujitsu be a real force in today's MMA, Travis Lutter claims to have the best Jujitsu as well. It seems the only thing that Jujitsu brings to MMA now is that everyone claims to have the best style but are they doing something different in their style then the next? I know I'll get some comments at me but I really would like to know the difference if any from one Jujitsu to another and why Gracie's is considered the best world wide.

[Edison "Shrek" Sabado]

The Gracies founded Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, it's been in their family for several generations, they start when they are babies, it's a family tradition

Lutter studies Brazilian Jiu Jitsu too, but I think he studies under Machado, I think Machado BJJ is different because it emphasizes use of the rubber guard, I know that's who Eddie Bravo and Marc Laimon learned from, all Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is traced back to Gracie Jiu Jitsu though

It doesn't seem like there are a lot of Japanese Jiu Jitsu guys, I don't know why, I think Judo and catch wrestling is just more popular over there.

[Furdjel De Windt]

Apr 23, 2008 15:09:52 GMT -5 Jason Kash said:

I've been watching MMA for a Long Time now and I am still wondering the same thing. Why is it that Gracie Jujitsu is considered the best Jujitsu out there? I mean do they apply armbars differently then other styles of Jujitsu? I have yet to see any Jujitsu be a real force in today's MMA, Travis Lutter claims to have the best Jujitsu as well. It seems the only thing that Jujitsu brings to MMA now is that everyone claims to have the best style but are they doing something different in their style then the next? I know I'll get some comments at me but I really would like to know the difference if any from one Jujitsu to another and why Gracie's is considered the best world wide.

I think mainly because the Gracies are brought up doing jiu jitsu, the family goes back to the invention of it, which comes from Helio Gracie, the grand master of all Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. They have so many techniques already mastered by the time that they fight MMA, its almost not even close to who has the better ground skills. Lutter claims to have the best BJJ, when he applied that armbar on Franklin, Franklin rolled out of it somewhat easily. If that was one of the Gracies applying that armbar, he would have that locked up so tight that Franklin would have his arm broken in a matter of seconds if he didnt tap. It's just totally different styles, its not as effective today as it was back then, Royce got exposed at UFC 60 against Hughes and he didnt do THAT great against Sakuraba the 2nd time around (a fight I still think Sakuraba won).

[Jason Kash]

Thank You to the both of you. I always had that question in the back of my mind. Watching Royce during the stone age of UFC up untill now seeing so many different styles and "Claims" at dominance. Now I know why The Gracie's are so respected, jujitsu in any style to me is useful to know but without Hands or some form of striking ground or standing, you are just a Jujitsu guy and not much of an MMAer. I think the style has died some because those who do know it in today's scene also are talented in a ray of styles. Thanks again though.

[Edison "Shrek" Sabado]

Some people's Jiu Jitsu is better for MMA than others, they just have a certain style that fits MMA better, if you go to the ground with Rodrigo Nogueira then that's like an automatic submission win for him, all he really does down there is sweeps and submissions, but there are a lot of guys out there who are better than him in straight Jiu Jitsu but aren't that effective in MMA.

[Jeff "Shooter" Graham]

It's a known fact that the Scottish Martial arts of Fuc-yu and Ass Kickery are the two bst in the world.

Interesting fact. The Machida's and the Gracies are actually cousins. Using similer styles but the Gracies are much more traditional in their approach.

[Miles Allen]

Shooter you got it all wrong...It's the Josh art of fuc-you and ass kickery!

You dedicating another 10 minutes of your show this week to bashing me? If so I'm going to call in and do my Conrad impression.

[Jeff "Shooter" Graham]

come on man...you pissed Blake off so i had to side with my boy. Besides it's good for you. People around the world now think you're a tool. LMAO!!!!

Just kidding man. All in good fun. Please don't call in as Conrad. We have enough heavy breathers.

[Jason Kash]

Graham laying in some epic clowning. Haha, funny shit. Hey where can I listen to this show you got?

[Conrad Howell]

there are link off the Rearnakedradio.net site to the show. and there is a like to the site off the main site for SoHK.

[Jason Kash]

Jujutsu was first developed by Samurai. Fighting forms have existed in Japan for centuries. The first references to unarmed combat arts or systems is in the earliest purported historical records of Japan, the Kojiki (Record of Ancient Matters) and the Nihon Shoki (Chronicles of Japan), which relate the mythological creation of the country and the establishment of the imperial family. Other glimpses can be found in the older records and pictures depicting sumai (or sumo) no sechie, a rite of the Imperial Court in Nara and Kyoto performed for purposes of divination and to help ensure a bountiful harvest.

There is a famous story of a warrior Nomi no Sekuni of Izumo who defeated and killed Tajima no Kehaya in Shimane prefecture while in the presence of Emperor Suinin. Descriptions of the techniques used during this encounter include striking, throwing, restraining and weaponry.

The term "j¨±jutsu" was not coined until the 17th century, after which time it became a blanket term for a wide variety of grappling-related disciplines. Prior to that time, these skills had names such as "short sword grappling" (С¾ß×ãÑüÖ®ÖÜ, kogusoku koshi no mawari?), "grappling" (½MÓ‘ or ½M´ò, kumiuchi?), "body art" (ÌåÐg, taijutsu?), "softness" (Èá or ºÍ, yawara?), "art of harmony" (ºÍÐg, wajutsu?), "catching hand" (²¶ÊÖ, torite?), and even the "way of softness" (ÈáµÀ, j¨±d¨­?) (as early as 1724, almost two centuries before Kano Jigoro founded the modern art of Kodokan Judo).[2]

These systems of unarmed combat began to be known as Nihon koryu j¨±jutsu (Japanese old-style jujutsu), among other related terms, during the Muromachi period (1333-1573), according to densho (transmission scrolls) of the various ryuha (martial traditions) and historical records. Most of these were battlefield systems to be used with the more common and vital weapon systems. These fighting arts had various names, including kogusoku, yawara, kumiuchi, and hakuda, all under the general description of Sengoku j¨±jutsu. They were not systems of unarmed combat, but means for an unarmed or lightly armed warrior to fight a heavily armed and armored enemy on the battlefield. Ideally, the samurai would be armed and would not need to rely on them.

Methods of combat (as just mentioned above) included striking (kicking and punching), throwing (body throws, joint-lock throws, unbalance throws), restraining (pinning, strangulating, grappling, wrestling) and weaponry. Defensive tactics included blocking, evading, off-balancing, blending and escaping. Minor weapons such as the tanto (dagger), ryufundo kusari (weighted chain), kabuto wari (helmet smasher), and kakushi buki (secret or disguised weapons) were almost always included in Sengoku jujutsu.

This doesn't say anything about Gracie's being the original jujitsu

[Gesias "JZ" Calvancanti]

Apr 24, 2008 19:46:05 GMT -5 Jason Kash said:

Jujutsu was first developed by Samurai. Fighting forms have existed in Japan for centuries. The first references to unarmed combat arts or systems is in the earliest purported historical records of Japan, the Kojiki (Record of Ancient Matters) and the Nihon Shoki (Chronicles of Japan), which relate the mythological creation of the country and the establishment of the imperial family. Other glimpses can be found in the older records and pictures depicting sumai (or sumo) no sechie, a rite of the Imperial Court in Nara and Kyoto performed for purposes of divination and to help ensure a bountiful harvest.

There is a famous story of a warrior Nomi no Sekuni of Izumo who defeated and killed Tajima no Kehaya in Shimane prefecture while in the presence of Emperor Suinin. Descriptions of the techniques used during this encounter include striking, throwing, restraining and weaponry.

The term "j¨±jutsu" was not coined until the 17th century, after which time it became a blanket term for a wide variety of grappling-related disciplines. Prior to that time, these skills had names such as "short sword grappling" (С¾ß×ãÑüÖ®ÖÜ, kogusoku koshi no mawari?), "grappling" (½MÓ‘ or ½M´ò, kumiuchi?), "body art" (ÌåÐg, taijutsu?), "softness" (Èá or ºÍ, yawara?), "art of harmony" (ºÍÐg, wajutsu?), "catching hand" (²¶ÊÖ, torite?), and even the "way of softness" (ÈáµÀ, j¨±d¨­?) (as early as 1724, almost two centuries before Kano Jigoro founded the modern art of Kodokan Judo).[2]

These systems of unarmed combat began to be known as Nihon koryu j¨±jutsu (Japanese old-style jujutsu), among other related terms, during the Muromachi period (1333-1573), according to densho (transmission scrolls) of the various ryuha (martial traditions) and historical records. Most of these were battlefield systems to be used with the more common and vital weapon systems. These fighting arts had various names, including kogusoku, yawara, kumiuchi, and hakuda, all under the general description of Sengoku j¨±jutsu. They were not systems of unarmed combat, but means for an unarmed or lightly armed warrior to fight a heavily armed and armored enemy on the battlefield. Ideally, the samurai would be armed and would not need to rely on them.

Methods of combat (as just mentioned above) included striking (kicking and punching), throwing (body throws, joint-lock throws, unbalance throws), restraining (pinning, strangulating, grappling, wrestling) and weaponry. Defensive tactics included blocking, evading, off-balancing, blending and escaping. Minor weapons such as the tanto (dagger), ryufundo kusari (weighted chain), kabuto wari (helmet smasher), and kakushi buki (secret or disguised weapons) were almost always included in Sengoku jujutsu.

This doesn't say anything about Gracie's being the original jujitsu

They aren't they are the orginial founders of BRAZILIAN Jiu Jitsu, the original term jiu jitsu came from Japan, it was a different form of Jiu Jitsu that incorporated some locks and mostly throws. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu came from Helio Gracie, they invented the art to be mainly joint locks and chokes to make a person submit and they made it as a sport. Not the original jiu jitsu though, not even close, Jiu Jitsu was invented waaay back to teach the Japanese warriors how to fight against other enemies, it was to defend themselves mainly by using unorthodox maneuvers that attacking enemies would be unaware against.

[Jason Kash]

Ahhhh...That's cool, glad I got that cleared up. It wasn't a dumb question though so I figured it'd be good to ask here and not at mmaweekly or sherdog where I get most my MMA News.

[Jeff "Shooter" Graham]

H¨¦lio Gracie (born October 1, 1913) is regarded by many as the creator of "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" although some, like Carlson Gracie, credit the foundation to Carlos Gracie, Sr. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is also known as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ). H¨¦lio is the only living 10th degree master of the discipline and is widely considered as one of the first sports heroes in Brazilian history; he was named Black Belt Magazine's Man of the Year in 1997. He is the father of the world-renowned fighters Rickson Gracie, Royler Gracie, Royce Gracie and Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) founder Rorion Gracie. Gracie is also a 6th dan in judo.

Today, H¨¦lio teaches ¦Ïccasionally in Brazil and accompanies his sons to fights.


Beginnings of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu
When H¨¦lio Gracie was 16 years old, he found the opportunity to teach a Jiu-Jitsu class, and this experience led him to develop Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. The Director of the Bank of Brazil, Dr. Mario arrived for class as scheduled. The instructor Carlos was running late and was not present. H¨¦lio offered to begin the class with the man. When the tardy Carlos arrived offering his apologies, the student assured him it was no problem, and actually requested that he be allowed to continue learning with H¨¦lio instead. Carlos agreed to this and H¨¦lio began as an instructor. H¨¦lio realized however, even though he knew the techniques theoretically, in actuality, the moves were much harder to execute. Due to his smaller size, he realized many of the jiu-jitsu moves required brute strength that his diminutive stature did not allow. He began adapting the moves for his particular physical attributes, and through trial and error learned to maximize leverage, thus minimizing the force that needed to be exerted to execute the move. From these experiments, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, formally Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, was created. Using these new techniques, smaller and weaker opponents gained the capability to defend themselves and even defeat much larger opponents.

[Christopher Caine]

why is jiu jitsu so important?

Every single fighter trains BJJ or grappling based off of BJJ in some way because if they went into a fight knowing nothing of BJJ and fought a guy who had been training BJJ for at least two years they would get submitted easily.

The only difference between gracie jiu jitsu and other types of BJJ is the way they teach it.

And I wouldnt consider Cesar gracie the best BJJ. Its just gracie jiu jitsu he just doesnt promote that easily. I have a few friends who train at cesars academy and its definitely legit.

and jiu jitsu is a HUGE force in bjj.....look at the nog brothers or damian maeia even Anderson SIlva used it to beat Lutter. Gilbert Melendez is one of the top lightweights in the world....he is a gracie jiu jitsu fighter.

Just because you dont see all these fighters doing submissions like crazy doesnt mean they arent using BJJ. Bjj focus's on positioning just as much as submissions. So when you see sweeps, or guard passes....thats mostly bjj or shit based of BJJ.