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Post by Gesias "JZ" Calvancanti on Apr 25, 2008 13:00:20 GMT -5
Ahhhh...That's cool, glad I got that cleared up. It wasn't a dumb question though so I figured it'd be good to ask here and not at mmaweekly or sherdog where I get most my MMA News. yeah, I wouldnt ask it on sherdog, most likely, internet keyboard warriors would call you names and stuff like that, they're idiots over on that website you know, better to ask here, you will get better answers and stuff. |
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Post by Christopher Caine on Apr 26, 2008 13:31:00 GMT -5
oh and btw
Carlos gracie started BJJ and was Helios teacher
just a little fyi
although helio did a lot with the development of bjj
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Post by Gesias "JZ" Calvancanti on Apr 26, 2008 18:07:59 GMT -5
carlos did invent it true, but as you said Helio revolutionized the whole art of it and made it into what we see today, Carlos invent it mainly, Helio decided to try it against larger opponents and showed that it was effective
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Post by "Vicious" Victor Gillean on May 3, 2008 13:10:54 GMT -5
why is jiu jitsu so important? Every single fighter trains BJJ or grappling based off of BJJ in some way because if they went into a fight knowing nothing of BJJ and fought a guy who had been training BJJ for at least two years they would get submitted easily. I call bullshit. it all depends on who is using the Jits and what there jaw is like. From what I have learned from experience is that most subs involve using both arms, ergo you can't block punches. when you got someone with lethal ground strikes like me, attempting a sub is asking to get knocked out so unless they got an iron jaw, it is futile. also I have found that Jits is somewhat useless in a life or death battle. if you are fighting for your life and you lock on an armbar, they are going to bite a chunk out of your leg before you can bend their arm to it's snapping point. believe me, I didn't get to 9-0 by lack of knowledge. |
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Post by Shidoshi Dux on May 3, 2008 16:39:43 GMT -5
why is jiu jitsu so important? Every single fighter trains BJJ or grappling based off of BJJ in some way because if they went into a fight knowing nothing of BJJ and fought a guy who had been training BJJ for at least two years they would get submitted easily. I call bullshit. it all depends on who is using the Jits and what there jaw is like. From what I have learned from experience is that most subs involve using both arms, ergo you can't block punches. when you got someone with lethal ground strikes like me, attempting a sub is asking to get knocked out so unless they got an iron jaw, it is futile. also I have found that Jits is somewhat useless in a life or death battle. if you are fighting for your life and you lock on an armbar, they are going to bite a chunk out of your leg before you can bend their arm to it's snapping point. believe me, I didn't get to 9-0 by lack of knowledge. Let me say this: Duh. This is like saying boxing skills are useless in MMA cause they can just get taken down by a wrestler/grappler. ALL forms of martial arts need to be adapted in ways to be effective in MMA. Guys with good jits are so good at it in MMA because they have learned to neutralize ground striking with their jiu jitsu. How effective can your ground striking be when your head is being controlled and you're struggling to breath cause you're locked in a triangle? Or how are you going to unleash "lethal ground strikes" when a guy's got your back and working on sinking in a RNC? Or even if you're mounted? And about your comment on most submissions involving both arms, there are a number of submissions that can be performed with just your legs. Also, usually any of the submissions that do involve both arms are effective because they take away your ability to retaliate or even move effectively. Hence the reason submissions EVER finish fights. Good jiu jitsu isn't just about submitting your opponent, it's also about controlling your opponent and gaining dominant position, thus disabling them from being able to do any damage to you or at least minimizing it. Unless you have a base knowledge of the submission game (which would include IMO a straight wrestling background), it doesn't matter who you are, you're probably going to get schooled on the ground. There's a reason why the submission is THE most common fight ending. |
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Post by Christopher Caine on May 4, 2008 12:36:16 GMT -5
why is jiu jitsu so important? Every single fighter trains BJJ or grappling based off of BJJ in some way because if they went into a fight knowing nothing of BJJ and fought a guy who had been training BJJ for at least two years they would get submitted easily. I call bullshit. it all depends on who is using the Jits and what there jaw is like. From what I have learned from experience is that most subs involve using both arms, ergo you can't block punches. when you got someone with lethal ground strikes like me, attempting a sub is asking to get knocked out so unless they got an iron jaw, it is futile. also I have found that Jits is somewhat useless in a life or death battle. if you are fighting for your life and you lock on an armbar, they are going to bite a chunk out of your leg before you can bend their arm to it's snapping point. believe me, I didn't get to 9-0 by lack of knowledge. 1) what is your name? And who have u fought to be 9-0. Are they just ammy fights? 2) l am 240 pounds and pretty built. When I used to train with joao pierini (he fought at ufc 37.5) he was just a little light weight and all my power in the world didnt mean shit because he know how to use leverage. Why do you think in the first couple ufcs a much smaller Royce Gracie schooled everyone. He didnt know how to do shit yet he submitted everyone. No one knew about BJJ yet and they got caught. 3.) BJJ is by far thee most important martial art to know in a street fight because 90% of fights go to the ground and bjj is not all about submissions, they can sweep you easy nd get better position. Also there are plenty of ways to do arm bars to make it impossible to get your leg bit. Also have you heaqrd of RNC's, kimuras, triangles, guillotines, so many submissions that you can do easy in a street fight and not worry about being bit |
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Post by Jeff "Shooter" Graham on May 4, 2008 13:31:46 GMT -5
why is jiu jitsu so important? Every single fighter trains BJJ or grappling based off of BJJ in some way because if they went into a fight knowing nothing of BJJ and fought a guy who had been training BJJ for at least two years they would get submitted easily. I call bullshit. it all depends on who is using the Jits and what there jaw is like. From what I have learned from experience is that most subs involve using both arms, ergo you can't block punches. when you got someone with lethal ground strikes like me, attempting a sub is asking to get knocked out so unless they got an iron jaw, it is futile. also I have found that Jits is somewhat useless in a life or death battle. if you are fighting for your life and you lock on an armbar, they are going to bite a chunk out of your leg before you can bend their arm to it's snapping point. believe me, I didn't get to 9-0 by lack of knowledge. I'm not trying to be disrespectful man, but this is the biggest load of shit I've ever heard. First if I can get ahold of a limb, I can promise you won't have time to bite shit. Especially since BJJ involves using the gi (ie: shirt, robe, coat) Trust me man, you'd be out before you even knew what was happening. Second, to set up strong strikes and keep an opponant from simply weaving away from the strikes you need to post one of your arms. If the guy on the bottom has any skill then he'll know what to do with your arm. If you have any sense you never let a skilled BJJ guy get ahold of any limb. If he does, then you'd better start defending. (See Brock Lesnar) I agree that it really does depend on the skills of the fighters but I'll take a skilled BJJ guy over a wrestler with good GnP anyday. I say that as a guy who wrestled since I was 12. I train with Saulo Ribiero. He's about half my size but when I sparred with him he wrecked me. At that point I had 20 years of wrestling, a black belt in Aekido and 3 years of combat ju jitsu. It wasn't even close man. I'm sure there are valid arguments but you haven't presented any yet. IMHO BJJ is the best "overall" fighting art. Not saying it's perfect but it really does lend itself to street fighting better than any other. |
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Post by n/a on May 4, 2008 14:02:51 GMT -5
While I agree with you on most all of your points Shooter, except the street fighting thing I really don't. 90% of MMA fights go to the ground, not street fights. Often times street fights involve multiple people at the very least looking on. Taking someone down leaves you easily open to someone else putting quite a hurting on you. Most likely some random guy isnt going to go straight for a double leg to put you on your back either. It is a safer bet to stay on your feet and I would say a traditional boxing or standup style would be better to rely on in a street situation.
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Post by Jeff "Shooter" Graham on May 4, 2008 14:11:47 GMT -5
While I agree with you on most all of your points Shooter, except the street fighting thing I really don't. 90% of MMA fights go to the ground, not street fights. Often times street fights involve multiple people at the very least looking on. Taking someone down leaves you easily open to someone else putting quite a hurting on you. Most likely some random guy isnt going to go straight for a double leg to put you on your back either. It is a safer bet to stay on your feet and I would say a traditional boxing or standup style would be better to rely on in a street situation. I know what you're saying man, but every fight I've ever been in (and there have been a few) has ended up on the ground. Even when there were more than two people involved. Just my experiance though. I know it's different for everyone. (damn hockey guy thinks it's always kept standing  ) |
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Post by "Vicious" Victor Gillean on May 4, 2008 17:13:10 GMT -5
well I have to disagree with BJJ being the most overall effective. If Dana White would allow Ninja in the UFC, those first few event would have ended a lot differently. Ninjitsu has both competent ground skills along with stand up striking.
But the problem is that ninja will never hit the big time due to the fact that if he has poor anger managment skills his opponent will most likly end up dead, hence why Dana White does not allow ninjitsu in the ufc. most people though can pass it off as BJJ/Muay Thai to explain the joint strikes along with submissions.
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Post by Gesias "JZ" Calvancanti on May 4, 2008 18:25:49 GMT -5
well I have to disagree with BJJ being the most overall effective. If Dana White would allow Ninja in the UFC, those first few event would have ended a lot differently. Ninjitsu has both competent ground skills along with stand up striking. But the problem is that ninja will never hit the big time due to the fact that if he has poor anger managment skills his opponent will most likly end up dead, hence why Dana White does not allow ninjitsu in the ufc. most people though can pass it off as BJJ/Muay Thai to explain the joint strikes along with submissions. Ninja Rua?? or an actual Ninja? |
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Post by "Vicious" Victor Gillean on May 4, 2008 20:05:46 GMT -5
real Ninja, as in a disciple of Ninjitsu like myself.
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Post by Kris "The Kid" Delgado on May 4, 2008 21:14:51 GMT -5
Wasn't the guy that Travis Fulton chokeslammed a ninja?
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Post by Gesias "JZ" Calvancanti on May 4, 2008 22:07:18 GMT -5
Wasn't the guy that Travis Fulton chokeslammed a ninja? Fulton choke slammed a Tae Kwon Do expert I believe, that was a pretty brutal slam, if anyone hasnt seen it on youtube, look up "travis fulton slam", its crazy, i dont know if he could still do that today though |
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Post by Conrad Howell on May 5, 2008 6:56:44 GMT -5
If i am not mistaken, in the 1st few UFC's there were fighter that were Ninjitsu fighters, and if i am not mistaken they did not do that well. But i could be remembering wrong, that was back in high school.
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